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	<title>Comments on: So True: &#8220;You all engage best through negative discourse&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: When you define yourself as a nail, everyone else looks like a hammer&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.herdwatching.com/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-208</link>
		<dc:creator>When you define yourself as a nail, everyone else looks like a hammer&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herdwatching.com/items/date/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-208</guid>
		<description>[...] of late is the identity of the &quot;unknown&quot; author who Black Amazon was defending during her attack on Seal press. This is the dustup that resulted in the flouncing of feminist savior [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of late is the identity of the &quot;unknown&quot; author who Black Amazon was defending during her attack on Seal press. This is the dustup that resulted in the flouncing of feminist savior [...]</p>
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		<title>By: soulhuntre</title>
		<link>http://www.herdwatching.com/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-207</link>
		<dc:creator>soulhuntre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herdwatching.com/items/date/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-207</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;no one at BA&#039;s blog was &quot;whining&quot; about wanting to be &quot;included&quot; by Seal Press.&lt;/i&gt;

I suggest you re-read the comments.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;There was only one line in BA&#039;s post that referred to Seal Press - and Seal Press came on down and threw a hissy fit over it.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

The one line was &quot;Fuck Seal press&quot; and the folks from Seal did not throw a fit over it at all. Their response was polite, reasoned and reasonable. Much more so than the abuse being tossed their way deserved.

We can agree on one thing, they shouldn&#039;t have commented at all. they should have known better than to bother when the  hatred was already in full force.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;no one at BA&#8217;s blog was &#8220;whining&#8221; about wanting to be &#8220;included&#8221; by Seal Press.</i></p>
<p>I suggest you re-read the comments.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;There was only one line in BA&#8217;s post that referred to Seal Press &#8211; and Seal Press came on down and threw a hissy fit over it.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>The one line was &#8220;Fuck Seal press&#8221; and the folks from Seal did not throw a fit over it at all. Their response was polite, reasoned and reasonable. Much more so than the abuse being tossed their way deserved.</p>
<p>We can agree on one thing, they shouldn&#8217;t have commented at all. they should have known better than to bother when the  hatred was already in full force.</p>
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		<title>By: soulhuntre</title>
		<link>http://www.herdwatching.com/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-206</link>
		<dc:creator>soulhuntre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;the point isn&#039;t even about one woman blogger of color, it&#039;s about a more consistent pattern and practice of our voices being marginalized in the blogosphere&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

How? Honestly. How is it even possible to marginalize you in the blogosphere as a whole? Sure, you can be marginalized at specific places... but overall? it&#039;s impossible for anyone to keep you down.

There are no gatekeepers, no editors to shut you down and no one censoring your words. The web and blogging is the single most level playing field in the history of human communication.

It is possible for you to be on the margins if your message doesn&#039;t find or keep an audience, but thats your doing and not the result of a conspiracy. Personally i think so many activists are so used to blaming their lack of impact on some vast conspiracy that even when it is clearly silly to make the accusation they can&#039;t help themselves.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;The fact that you can state that no one in the real world has heard of Brownfemipower or the many many other women of color bloggers who are constantly putting out an analysis of our very real experiences, just goes to show how happily insulated you are.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

While obviously a slight exaggeration the simply reality is that I could pick 100 people of the street in the center of Manhattan and the odds are almost none of them would be blog readers of any type. Of those almost no one would care or know who Bfp is.

To think that even the largest bloggers (with the exception of a very, very few) are even a tiny blip in the &quot;real world&quot; is delusional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;the point isn&#8217;t even about one woman blogger of color, it&#8217;s about a more consistent pattern and practice of our voices being marginalized in the blogosphere&#8221;</i></p>
<p>How? Honestly. How is it even possible to marginalize you in the blogosphere as a whole? Sure, you can be marginalized at specific places&#8230; but overall? it&#8217;s impossible for anyone to keep you down.</p>
<p>There are no gatekeepers, no editors to shut you down and no one censoring your words. The web and blogging is the single most level playing field in the history of human communication.</p>
<p>It is possible for you to be on the margins if your message doesn&#8217;t find or keep an audience, but thats your doing and not the result of a conspiracy. Personally i think so many activists are so used to blaming their lack of impact on some vast conspiracy that even when it is clearly silly to make the accusation they can&#8217;t help themselves.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;The fact that you can state that no one in the real world has heard of Brownfemipower or the many many other women of color bloggers who are constantly putting out an analysis of our very real experiences, just goes to show how happily insulated you are.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>While obviously a slight exaggeration the simply reality is that I could pick 100 people of the street in the center of Manhattan and the odds are almost none of them would be blog readers of any type. Of those almost no one would care or know who Bfp is.</p>
<p>To think that even the largest bloggers (with the exception of a very, very few) are even a tiny blip in the &#8220;real world&#8221; is delusional.</p>
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		<title>By: Mamita Mala</title>
		<link>http://www.herdwatching.com/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-205</link>
		<dc:creator>Mamita Mala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herdwatching.com/items/date/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-205</guid>
		<description>The fact that you can state that no one in the real world has heard of Brownfemipower or the many many other women of color bloggers who are constantly putting out an analysis of our very real experiences, just goes to show how happily insulated you are. And the point isn&#039;t even about one woman blogger of color, it&#039;s about a more consistent pattern and practice of our voices being marginalized in the blogosphere, just as they are in the real world and how the two worlds work together.

Seal Press made the mistake of going to website &quot;othering&quot; the already &quot;othered&quot; (ie &quot;you all&quot;) without asking for context, without listening, rather just defending and assuming that what was being asked was for inclusion, when rather clearly, Seal Press had already been written off. Not a very professional stance to take from so called professionals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that you can state that no one in the real world has heard of Brownfemipower or the many many other women of color bloggers who are constantly putting out an analysis of our very real experiences, just goes to show how happily insulated you are. And the point isn&#8217;t even about one woman blogger of color, it&#8217;s about a more consistent pattern and practice of our voices being marginalized in the blogosphere, just as they are in the real world and how the two worlds work together.</p>
<p>Seal Press made the mistake of going to website &#8220;othering&#8221; the already &#8220;othered&#8221; (ie &#8220;you all&#8221;) without asking for context, without listening, rather just defending and assuming that what was being asked was for inclusion, when rather clearly, Seal Press had already been written off. Not a very professional stance to take from so called professionals.</p>
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		<title>By: soulhuntre</title>
		<link>http://www.herdwatching.com/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>soulhuntre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I can see how and why you see it the way you do... I just don&#039;t agree. I think the disconnect starts early - I didn&#039;t see her critique as well formed or legitimate. Nor do I think their response on it was at all discounting.

Int he case of sex workers the issue is usually that one group is trying to tell you how your life is. They are ignoring your views on how you are feeling and thinking and what your reality is. I did not at all see seal press telling anyone at all how their reality is. I only say them standing up when their attackers tried to paint THEM as racists (and that is what they were doing).

I simply don&#039;t see a problem with saying &quot;no, I am not a racist&quot; when someone tries to tell me what I am thinking / feeling.

It is of course possible I am way off of course, it has happened before and I am sure it will happen again. I don&#039;t see anything here (especially given how many folks have continued to revel in their righteous indignation) that indicates that.

Thanks for the comment though, I do appreciate it. I&#039;ll look at it again when I have a chance with an eye on having missed something. Your analysis is usually pretty good... so it&#039;s worth a double check on my end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see how and why you see it the way you do&#8230; I just don&#8217;t agree. I think the disconnect starts early &#8211; I didn&#8217;t see her critique as well formed or legitimate. Nor do I think their response on it was at all discounting.</p>
<p>Int he case of sex workers the issue is usually that one group is trying to tell you how your life is. They are ignoring your views on how you are feeling and thinking and what your reality is. I did not at all see seal press telling anyone at all how their reality is. I only say them standing up when their attackers tried to paint THEM as racists (and that is what they were doing).</p>
<p>I simply don&#8217;t see a problem with saying &#8220;no, I am not a racist&#8221; when someone tries to tell me what I am thinking / feeling.</p>
<p>It is of course possible I am way off of course, it has happened before and I am sure it will happen again. I don&#8217;t see anything here (especially given how many folks have continued to revel in their righteous indignation) that indicates that.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment though, I do appreciate it. I&#8217;ll look at it again when I have a chance with an eye on having missed something. Your analysis is usually pretty good&#8230; so it&#8217;s worth a double check on my end.</p>
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		<title>By: RenegadeEvolution</title>
		<link>http://www.herdwatching.com/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator>RenegadeEvolution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herdwatching.com/items/date/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-203</guid>
		<description>Um, you know what?  You are way off here.  Seal Press went to a womans blog, totally discounted her legit critique, and then stormed off in a little huff.  End story.  The way they treated WoC voices on this issue is NO different then the way sex workers get treated by &quot;various factions&quot;, and you are able to see the bullshit there.  Point is, if you are going to claim to care and represent, you need to do that, and on such issues Seal Press failed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, you know what?  You are way off here.  Seal Press went to a womans blog, totally discounted her legit critique, and then stormed off in a little huff.  End story.  The way they treated WoC voices on this issue is NO different then the way sex workers get treated by &#8220;various factions&#8221;, and you are able to see the bullshit there.  Point is, if you are going to claim to care and represent, you need to do that, and on such issues Seal Press failed.</p>
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		<title>By: The BfP/&#8221;X&#8221; Files: An Update &#124; The SmackDog Chronicles (Ver. 2.5)</title>
		<link>http://www.herdwatching.com/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-202</link>
		<dc:creator>The BfP/&#8221;X&#8221; Files: An Update &#124; The SmackDog Chronicles (Ver. 2.5)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 09:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herdwatching.com/items/date/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-202</guid>
		<description>[...] the usual drive-by shots at feminism and &#8220;victimization&#8221; from Soulhuntre. (Quick memo: Butt out of what you know not a damn thing about, [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the usual drive-by shots at feminism and &#8220;victimization&#8221; from Soulhuntre. (Quick memo: Butt out of what you know not a damn thing about, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bq</title>
		<link>http://www.herdwatching.com/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-201</link>
		<dc:creator>Bq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 03:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herdwatching.com/items/date/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-201</guid>
		<description>Uh...no one at BA&#039;s blog was &quot;whining&quot; about wanting to be &quot;included&quot; by Seal Press. Your post seems to be hinging on this assumption and therefore doesn&#039;t make sense. There was only one line in BA&#039;s post that referred to Seal Press - and Seal Press came on down and threw a hissy fit over it. I don&#039;t know about you, but I don&#039;t attack random people on the internet under my workplace&#039;s name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh&#8230;no one at BA&#8217;s blog was &#8220;whining&#8221; about wanting to be &#8220;included&#8221; by Seal Press. Your post seems to be hinging on this assumption and therefore doesn&#8217;t make sense. There was only one line in BA&#8217;s post that referred to Seal Press &#8211; and Seal Press came on down and threw a hissy fit over it. I don&#8217;t know about you, but I don&#8217;t attack random people on the internet under my workplace&#8217;s name.</p>
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		<title>By: Fire Fly</title>
		<link>http://www.herdwatching.com/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>Fire Fly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herdwatching.com/items/date/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-200</guid>
		<description>Please take down the link to my blog.

I also suggest you get a clue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please take down the link to my blog.</p>
<p>I also suggest you get a clue.</p>
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		<title>By: Sweating Through Fog</title>
		<link>http://www.herdwatching.com/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-199</link>
		<dc:creator>Sweating Through Fog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herdwatching.com/items/date/2008/04/11/so-true-you-all-engage-best-through-negative-discourse/#comment-199</guid>
		<description>Some great points here.  I love to point to these blogwars as examples of leftist lunacy, and how cool it is when &quot;victims&quot; turn on feminists.

Thanks for the link on &quot;flouncing&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some great points here.  I love to point to these blogwars as examples of leftist lunacy, and how cool it is when &#8220;victims&#8221; turn on feminists.</p>
<p>Thanks for the link on &#8220;flouncing&#8221;</p>
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