The Sex Positive Male Challenge

The Sex Positive Male Challenge

Someone I never heard of before (Nine Deuce) at a blog I never heard of before called Rage Against the Man-chine put of a fairly amusing example of biased framing on the 27th. The SmackDog Chronicles refer to it as “The Sex Positive Male Challenge” and so will I.

The basic core of Nine Deuce’s post is that she hates hot chicks and so should you doesn’t understand why more men don’t defend sex positivity that she sees. The answers are obvious and simple…

  • The places she spends her time are so hostile to men that most of us don’t bother with them
  • Most men will look at you like your stupid if you actually don’t know that they are positive on the idea of women liking sex and sexual things

As if to prove the above points she goes on a fairly long, rambling and biased rant for a while then spits out these questions for us “sex positive” men to answer. Here are mine.

Do you believe that women would participate in sex work if we did not live in an oppressive, misogynistic culture? If so, what would the sex industry look like in a world in which women were seen as possessing the same humanity men do?

I reject the core bias of the question. At least in the Unites States we do not live in an oppressive, misogynistic culture. We do live in a culture that enjoys using sex and sexuality for a variety of purposes and this upsets some folks (like you)… so you no doubt see it as oppressive. Your issues and paranoia do not dictate reality.

Since I reject the basic premise my answer is “a lot like it does now”. ideally we should have more social programs and safeguards in place but that is not limited to this area of life.

Do you believe that pornography and prostitution negatively affect some women’s lives (obviously some sex workers suffer abuse, but I am referring to women outside the sex industry here)? If not, why not? If so, does any of the responsibility for that lie with sex workers, or does it lie solely with the producers and pimps? Or somewhere else?

I am sure there are women who are negatively effected by sex and sexual images for a wide variety of reasons. I am also sure there are women negatively effected by video games, free political speech and pictures of Zebras. What I am unsure about is why that should matter for this purpose?

As for the rest, I will quote myself from the comment I put up on Renegade Evolution’s blog. “Are they really suggesting that you subsume your personal freedom and choices to the collective will of the group? Why? By what possible moral right can they make you their slave in this manner? Who gave them the moral authority to make you their slave?”

In short, once again, your self esteem issues are not something I intend to blame society or strangers for. If you must blame someone then blame your parents for utterly failing you.

Why aren’t there more men out there arguing for women’s “right” to participate in sex work? What do you make of the fact that very few men call sex work a feminist choice? I’d also be happy to discuss the arguments of men who do make such a claim.

The vast majority of the men I know take it as a given that women have the right to do what they choose with their own bodies. If they want to strip, hook, dance or model that is up to them and more power to ‘em. I find it amusing that the only people left who need to be convinced to let women do what they damn well please are radical feminists.

As a side note – why would a male argue this point in any of these radfem spaces given how clearly closed minded and overtly hostile you folks are?

Can women like Jenna Jameson be considered feminists for taking leadership roles in the production of pornography? Why or why not? If the answer is yes, how can we reconcile the negative effects pornography has on women’s lives with referring to a producer of mainstream pornography as a feminist?

I certainly consider her to be acting in a feminist way. Whether she chooses to identify herself with the crazies who have usurped the label “feminist” or not is up to her.

Additionally, there is nothing to reconcile. The individual freedom to make choices for yourself is the core concept of actual feminism. it is only in radical feminist circles that the socialist / communist view of the individual being a slave to the group enters the situation. “The personal is political” is a tool of totalitarian control, not a rally cry of freedom.

How can sex work empower individual women when it requires that women submit to being objectified and performing acts for money rather than out of genuine desire to do them?

It’s a job. Hence the term “sex work”. Even assuming (and this is by no means universal) that sex workers do not enjoy this job I am not sure it means they are disempowered any more than I am when I take a development contract I don’t want to do because I need to pay the bills.

Sometimes in our jobs we all do things we wouldn’t be doing if they weren’t paying us. That’s why they pay us.

Alternatively, if one genuinely enjoys something and gets paid for it, does it become a feminist act?

The freedom to make the choice is where feminism enters this… nowhere else.

In other words, does feminism exist to advance the cause of women as a whole or for individual women to use as a justification for their personal choices?

I’ll quote myself again, this time in full.

“We see this sort of false logic used in many areas including economics and especially taxation.
The reality is that the ONLY way to advance the cause of any group "as a whole" is to empower the individual choices of it’s members. Personal freedom and agency is the only path that works.

Anything else is blackmail and slavery.

Are they really suggesting that you subsume your personal freedom and choices to the collective will of the group? Why? By what possible moral right can they make you their slave in this manner? Who gave them the moral authority to make you their slave?” - Soulhuntre

If sex work is a valid, feminist choice for individual women, what are we to make of women who say that their participation in sex work resulted from dire poverty, drug addiction, etc.?

Factory work is a valid choice for a male, yet someone who was forced to do it is a victim.  Someone who does it because it is economically expedient may or may not be a victim. In nether case is that status a referendum on the validity of factory work as an occupation.

Why is this any different?

I see sex work as a reductionist commodification of human sexuality. Do you think that the reduction of sex to a commodity has a negative effect on our ability to explore and express the potential of human sexuality? If not, why not?

Wow, you sound just like the religious fundamentalists. next thing you’ll be having radical feminist purity balls.

In short no, the entire premise of the assertion is deeply flawed and represents your hang ups, not societies problems.

If you’re a sex-positive dude, tell me why. Why are you in such a huff to help women out? And why does it manifest as sex positivism? Why is your desire to help women out limited to arguing for their “right” to serve you sexually?

Sex positivity in the sense it is used here is a simple manifestation of the believe in the rights of individuals to make the core choices for themselves. I reject the enslavement of the individual to the collective in all areas – including this one. The idea that an individual woman needs to change what she does with her body to suit the hang-ups, self esteem issues and repressive natures of a vocal minority of women is frankly silly and repugnant to me.

As an aside, that was the lamest attempt at a logic trap I have seen since the third grade.

Special note, Ren and Amber Rhea do a great job tearing this silliness apart in particular.

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